This whole “Occupy Wall Street” movement is ridiculous.
I’ll let one of the protesters try to explain it to you in her own words from this lohud.com article:
Among her biggest complaints are the millions of unemployed and uninsured and the trillion dollars in student-loan debt.
“I’m a victim of all three,” said Angelo, who hasn’t found regular work since graduating from Pace University two years ago.
I want to thank Nicki Angelo for clearly showing the entire world how utterly stupid this movement is.
First let’s understand what they are occupying: Wall Street. They chose this place because it represents the financial markets of America. It represents the free market and the entrepreneurial spirit of striving for profit and making money.
Now let’s address her three biggest complaints.
Unemployment
She is occupying Wall Street because she is unemployed, when in reality Wall Street provides jobs. The whole reason companies go public is to raise capital so they can expand their business and, you guessed it, hire more workers.
If she wants to occupy somewhere because she’s pissed off that she’s unemployed, maybe she should occupy the career center at her college where advisers probably told her it would be a good idea to spend tens of thousands of dollars to major in something like art history.
Yes, companies fire employees for the sake of profit. Why? Because if a company is not profitable, then EVERYONE loses their job.
I wish this sign were joking. photo credit: flickr.com/shankbone
Uninsured
The only way Wall Street is going to give her insurance is if she goes back to school, gets a finance degree, shows a high level of aptitude and gets hired as a broker at a Wall Street firm.
Health insurance is readily available to her; all she needs to do is get a job and pay for it.
And if she wants insurance without having to work for it, then she needs to be occupying Washington DC or her senator’s office; not Wall Street. I don’t agree with government health insurance, but that’s a legitimate place to ask for it if you want it free. Only an idiot expects the free market to give people health insurance without paying for it.
Student-Loan Debt
Wall Street could pay off her student loan debt, again, if she got a job there and used her wages to pay it off. She borrowed and spent a bunch of money, and now she doesn’t want to pay it back.
Again, a reasonable protest would be against her college and/or the federal government. Her college let her borrow and spend money to earn a degree that left her ill-equipped to find a good job, and the federal government has inflated the price of higher education with guaranteed federal loans for anyone who wants one.
She’s a “Victim” of all three
I’ve given Nicki some suggestions of were her protests might better serve her causes, but her biggest problem is her “victim” mentality. Excuse me if I don’t break down in tears for all the suffering that has been imposed upon her:
- Taxpayers and/or private companies lending her thousands of dollars to get an education without working and paying for it herself. She’s been using other people’s money to support herself for years and is now victimized by being asked to pay it back?
- She’s been unemployed for two years, but if you check out her facebook page, you’ll notice from pictures that she has a nice place to live with furniture and cats and a huge bed. She hasn’t held a steady job in at least two years (and my guess is she’s never held a steady job) so obviously someone else (friends, family, government, etc) is paying for her living arrangements. Yet somehow, she still feels victimized.
- Instead of spending her time trying to find a job or starting her own business and creating a job, she voluntarily spends her days on the streets of New York handing out flyers. This poor girl is being victimized by the fact that nobody has knocked on her door and said, “Here’s your dream job and a six figure salary with a generous benefits package.”
I don’t know Nicki Angelo in person. I only know what I’ve gathered from the information in the article and what’s public on her facebook page. And yet, it is clear to me that if she is being victimized by anyone, it’s herself.
There is absolutely no sense of personal responsibility from Nicki Angelo, and from what I understand, any of the other “protesters”.
They only see what successful people on Wall Street have and NOT all the work they’ve done. Successful brokers on Wall Street have been working 80 hour weeks for decades to make themselves rich while Nicki was playing with her cats. And now she’s pissed that they have more stuff than her.
These protesters don’t want justice; they are just angry that they have run out of people willing to give them money in exchange for nothing.
UPDATE: If you want to see Nicki Angelo’s reaction to this post, you can find her comment here.
Very interesting post. I’ve always felt that way about student-loan debt; people need to be responsible and understand what they’re getting themselves into. If the job you want after you graduate college will not pay you enough to pay off your loans before they’re due, you either need to take out a smaller loan, change colleges, or look for a new career.
I’ve been trying to find the words to articulate my feelings about this protest and I think you summed it up perfectly
They also complain about the bailouts, but again, it was the government that approved that money, not Wall Street. So wrong place to setup camp.
And the whole “Corporate Greed” shtick is so old and tired. Corporate greed is good, otherwise the 40 year return on the stock market would be negligible and we’d all be forced to invest in treasury bonds or put our savings under our mattresses. But you think these people have retirement savings? HA. They’ll continue to complain about how unfair life is, continue to do very little work, and then wait for their medicare and social security handouts when they reach 65, if not sooner.
Unions have been preaching these issues for a long time, so at least they have history on their side. The rest of these bums need to head on out and find some work. I bet they passed 3 Macy’s on the way, all of which are hiring hundreds of people for the holiday season.
i agree with this completely and feel sure many of my generation also do. when i went to college i did not get a loan, there was a pell grant, a few hundred dollars that bought books so i bought used book from book store, lived with three other peoople in a rented mobile home and ate ramen noodles, at least five time a week… worked at night as a server in a cafe and used the college library to study in since it saved on electricity and was quiet…we did not go out to eat, we walked or rode a bike to class, most had no car so gas and insurance was not an issue..this required getting up a bit earlier but it is just what we had to do in order to complete the goal..which was nursing degree…it was hard and i sacrificed a lot of saturdays hitting the books while my liberal arts roomies slept late or went to play frisbee at the park.. all of this to say, it takes hard work, drive and sacrifice to be able to have something in life…it is not easy to achieve a high goal, one must make effort…personal effort. it is not up to others to give you a part of what they have spent years working toward while you sat around on a computer game or shoppiing with your dads credit card. i have no sympathy for these “victims”
You should have taken out more loans and gone to a better school….your spelling and English need improvement.
hahaha..you are correct, i do not use spell check , the nerve of me! ha! Your comment made me smile, as it shows that you did read my opinion, typos and all. If I had taken out more loans I would not have been able to enjoy all these wonderful trips to see my grandbaby, it takes lots of money to travel in style nowadays…and man am i enjoy being able to do that!! and forgive me for my poor typing and grammer, but I think my English is about on par with yours “gone to a better school” ? did you mean to write “attended” ? Now run along and try to use a better name than No next time, you know you are more creative than that you sweet little liberal you…here, have a slice of cake, everybody tells me i bake great pound cake and today, just for you, i will put extra fruit on top.
Trust in God, Buy American, Support our troops, and Vote for anyone other than obama.
Great job writing this post Thousandaire! You hit the nail on the head. It’s frustrating to hear people complain about their problems (and we all have them) but not take the corresponding responsibility for how their actions and decisions may have led them down that road.
I am thankful to not have student loan debt – between scholarships and the help of my family, I got through undergrad without owing anything. And then I found a job in my field and have been gainfully employed and insured since then. I have, however, worked nights, weekends, holidays and gotten messy (that’s the hospitality business for you). And for those unemployed? Hotels and restaurants are almost always hiring. It may not be your dream job and it certainly won’t be 9-5 Monday-Friday, but it will help pay your bills and (at least where I work) offer great benefits.
I think you’re missing the whole point. the occupation is a movement for humanity in whole, which is why a cohesive “message” cannot be compiled by the mainstream media. It’s NOT just about money. It’s about the whole system becoming a joke and working to benefit the wall street crooks you feel are “working hard” to make their millions. I suggest you do your research and see how the line has dissolved between our government and wall st leaders. You’d be surprised at the power these crooks have.
Again… Wall Street, just like every other corporation has the right afforded to them by the Supreme Court to lobby our government.
If you have an issue with “Wall Street money” influencing policy decisions, you should not be protesting Wall Street, you should be protesting our government in Washington.
This is Kevin’s point. The movement is targeting the wrong location.
oh but they are.
This post makes absolutely no sense. Um. Ok.
What don’t you get about it? I’d be happy to help you make sense of it. Earlier this year, Michael Brenner wrote the following about the current composition of the Obama administration….
“Wall Street’s takeover of the Obama administration is now complete. The mega-banks and their corporate allies control every economic policy position of consequence. Mr. Obama has moved rapidly since the November debacle to install business people where it counts most. Mr.William Daley from JP Morgan Chase as White House Chief of Staff. Mr. Gene Sperling from the Goldman Sachs payroll to be director of the National Economic Council. Eileen Rominger from Goldman Sachs named director of the SEC’s Investment Management division. Even the National Security Advisor, Thomas Donilon, was executive vice president for law and policy at the disgraced Fannie Mae after serving as a corporate lobbyist with O’Melveny & Roberts. The keystone of the business friendly team was put in place on Friday. General Electric Chairman and CEO Jeffrey Immelt will serve as chair of the president’s Council on Jobs and Competitiveness.”
^^ That makes no sense.
Whats wrong, those business people come from successful businesses which is why Obama chose them to lead our government, they know how business works.
The only thing that doesn’t make sense is that it took President Obama almost three years to make these moves. Until recently NOT ONE key economic advisor had ever held a job outside of politics or academia!!! Theory is nice but it is much better to see folks with real life experience FINALLY stepping into the gap!!
What is this ,another wall street puppet ? HA HA ! Do not let this guy steal your money ,in fact SELL SELL SELL ,wall street will fall anyways…Well ,probably if you guys stop destroying the earth and everything within this shit would not be happening ..This are their demands
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N8o3peQq79Q&feature=player_embedded
The biggest reason for the protests are to get corporate money out of our politics. Try to study the subject before making a ridiculous website about it. You don’t have to be homeless, unemployed, or buried in debt to see what greed has done to our, once prosperous, nation.
If that’s the reason for the protest, then someone better inform Nicki, because she’s giving out bad information to reporters. You can’t blame me for not knowing the cause when the people who are protesting don’t know it.
Hahahaha!
The reasons this protester gave: student loan debt, vast joblessness, etc are a product of a society in which the people do not have a voice. The reason the people don’t have a voice is big money in our government…I read the article you referred to and I think she was right on. If our representatives were representing us and hearing our voices these problems would not be hitting the American people in epidemic proportion.
Well if that’s the issue, then shouldn’t these protests be taking place in Washington where they make political policy?
They are happening all over the world. People are tired of the corruption.
If rampant corruption exists, vote your representative out of office.
Speak with your votes and start rallying against your representative and senator, that is where you will actually make in impact. Start demanding to know what corporations are contributing. Demand campaign finance reform!
These OWS protests are only creating more resentment.
Tom, I really do feel you’re a bit disconnected with the reality that the 99% ( which is you too) lives in. In the ideal society that democracy provides this would be the ultimate solution but unfortunately, it is with human error that our government, just like communism can not work. If it is our votes and issues that count instead of the 1% who can actually donate to the politicians to promote their agenda, I’m sure this conversation would not be happening at all.
I’m not disconnected, but realistic.
You say democracy cannot work, so what are you proposing? I hear a lot of complaining, but no realistic ideas.
Again, maybe you should be protesting your Senator and Congressman about their campaign contributions.
FOR ALL YOU PEOPLE WHO THINK HAVING A 9-5 JOB BARELY BEING ABLE TO PAY OFF YOUR CAR, HOME, AND NECESSITIES IS GREAT THEN THEY HAVE SUCCEEDED IN FEEDING YOU TO THE MACHINE!! THESE WALL ST CORPORATIONS OWN THE MEDIA, WHICH CONTROLS WHAT YOU WATCH, WANT, BUY, EAT, AND FEEL. THEY MAKE LIFE HARD TO DISTRACT YOU FROM UNDERSTANDING THAT THEIR FUCKUPS ARE BEING PAID FOR BY YOURS AND MY TAX DOLLARS. WHEN THEY NEARLY CRASHED THE WORLD ECONOMY WHOSE MONEY DO YOU THINK THEY TOOK TO “BAIL” THEM OUT? IF THIS DOESN’T ANGER YOU THEN STAY ASLEEP. BUT THE PROTESTERS, WE LIVE.
Thank you comrade Lenin for that soviet propaganda! Here’s to a nation of squatters and loafers! Mye they too get a “living wage” with out any effort other then sucking up oxygen and budweiser!
“It is true that liberty is precious — so precious that it must be rationed.” Vladimir Lenin < that in an of itself should scare the hell out of anyone! You've been duped! If you value your liberty, you can't support any socialist movement like this.
Although I see where you are going with your point, I am in disagreement with your conclusion and the basis for it. In the first place, I think you make some very bold claims about someone using a six word phrase of how they feel. Also, did you say, “what’s public on her Facebook page?” To me, this isn’t enough information to act as the sole proof and evidence for your editorial. It falls irresponsibly short of serving to be anything more than a jumping off point for your opinion. In my opinion, this editorial style of writing is fine, encouraged even. However, it is weakened quite sharply for me when this dubious tidbit of information is sourced to be supreme fact and “clearly” supports the rest of your article.
I am happy you aren’t in support of the movement, yet candidly exercising your free speech. It is good to have both sides and also good to see someone who is unapologetic for how they feel about their position. We’re not that different after all. So, keep up the good work, and save for my aforementioned qualms, good article 🙂
I appreciate your civil and rational discussion Tom. But I think you’re missing the main source that I used for my commentary, which was a direct quote from an article in which Nicki was interviewed.
Since you seem to be a reasonable person, I’d like you to help me understand something. If you disagree with me, then please explain how Wall Street is going to fix Nicki’s problems, as opposed to the places I suggested she go to protest.
I disagree with you on three issues specifically. The first I mentioned in the previous post which is that I still believe the quote you used of her’s to support your claim isn’t very well founded. I think a more apt quote from that article to describe why she is there is this:
“We’ll stay indefinitely. We want to see some change,” she said. “It’s our duty. If we want to . live here, we should work to make it a good place to live.”
This to me says that she’s there to support an overall change and indicates nothing of a personal agenda but rather a social one that she is happy to help with. As for the other quote, that is obviously what is affecting her, but she just seems to say that as her own problems, not as what Wall Street needs to solve or even what they are responsible for.
Secondly, I don’t believe in the Herman Cain ideal that if she’s not rich or doesn’t have a job it’s her fault alone. Now, seeing as how it would be hypocritical to pretend that I know more than you do about this woman I will not venture a guess as to whether she really is a victim or self victimized, but I will say that there is nothing you know well enough about her as a person to make such a claim either. It is a very intellectually lazy assertion that because she is unemployed or homeless, or indebted, that her, and her alone, is responsible.
Thirdly, I think that although you claim that Wall Street workers have worked 80 hour work weeks and have worked hard to get where they are, you leave a gross gap of evidence there to defend their uninvolvement with the current state of the economy. This is the central message that I see being protested and there is no one in congress or in politics that hasn’t echoed the same feelings towards their (Wall St. and the Federal Reserve) carelessness and disregard for what is best for the citizens of the country. In a speech by Mr. Obama yesterday, he said that the justice department is and should be investigating these groups to find those most accountable and bring them to justice. That is why people are there. THAT is why they are protesting. It’s not because they are against “the free market and the entrepreneurial spirit of striving for profit and making money” (this sentence alone seems to echo the “They hate us because of our freedom” propaganda of the “War on Terror” campaign).
So, to answer your question I think that Wall Street is as good of a place to start as any. And why aren’t people in Washington D.C.? THEY ARE. Why aren’t people protesting at their school’s financial aid office, THEY ARE (see the school walkouts and roundtables discussions about the exorbitant cost of tuition and fees that students and faculty are participating in as a result).
Therefore, I disagree that the people in this country (and around the world) are going about their grievances the best they can. Everyone has their own ideas of how it “should be”, but these people are united under a few shared beliefs and are voicing their opinions in a way that is democratic, peaceful, and effective. It remains to be seen if it will yield everything being asked for, but I think that any American should respect people standing up for what they believe in in such a way and voicing their dissatisfaction in such a way. Don’t forget where we would be if other American’s had never got up and protested injustices.
Tom,
You articulate your position and defend Nicki quite well. The most powerful statement that I think you made was, “Don’t forget where we would be if other American’s had never got up and protested injustices.”
Like I alluded to in another comment on this site, I think the most effective thing about this protest is its voice. People are paying attention.
Obama is trying to get re-elected. He and other politicians don’t want the public to look at there policies and law that make it hard for banks to do sub-prime loans (back then). Besides, remember those speeches about not resting until unemployment was under control… ummm, why are you listening to him again? Is it his stellar track record as president? We the people, put a rookie president into the position and he’s constantly fumbling.
I think it’s childish (but smart) of the government to redirect the blame on others. Look how they each blame the other party for everything.
I think Wall Street did nothing out of the ordinary. They just want to make money, not destroy the nation. They didn’t plan this… I think it was bad laws, people with lack of discipline and the government that enabled this to happen.
I think you accidentally replied to the wrong post. Neither myself or the other two posters in this conversation have mentioned Obama or The Left Wing at any point. I think you must be replying to something aired on Fox News or CNN as those are the only places I have seen this theory mentioned. Don’t be fooled by the political posturing of these networks and by people who stand to lose something from these protests. One of the easiest ways that you can check this theory as to its validity is to watch interviews with several protesters, read their newsletter (Occupy Wall Street Journal), watch a live stream of these protests from a non-MSM source (i.e. livestream.com/globalrevolution), or here’s the best idea I have for what you can do, GO THERE instead of relying on anyone (including me) tell you through their own biased filter of what is taking place and what it’s all about. It’s unfortunate that people are so susceptible to propaganda and misinformation such as this, because at least with the correct information you can dissent with some knowledge and truth, instead of dissenting on what you believe to be true. As a side note, if and when you do find out what people are talking about down there, pay attention to how few (if any) mention Obama for reelection. Make no mistake, these protests are about EXPOSING current policy through accountability and transparency, not to cover them up. You’ll find this out after minimal research of your own.
*haven’t mentioned Obama should be no one has been in support of Obama. I mentioned him to back up my position that even politicians are in agreement about Wall Street’s activities, not to endorse Obama (which I do not)
Great great post Tom, you said better than I could have what I thought after reading this post from Kevin.
Tom,
You didn’t answer Kevin’s question. Your points don’t make any sense whatsoever with regard to the question. The question was how will “Wall Street” fix these problems for her? The whole point of the article is that she is barking up the wrong tree. Why not camp outside McDonald’s or Macy’s or any other large business? Let’s camp outside your door and see if you can help them with their problem? There may be substance to what they are protesting about, but they are aiming their message at the wrong people. Do you think any particular individual who works at a financial firm in wall street is going to stop their day at work and go, gee, these protestors are right, what can I do to help them? I’ll give them my job or pay their loans for them, or I know, I’ll buy them a hot dog from the hot dog stand at lunch. Maybe that will shut them up. We live in a great country where you have so much freedom to pursue your dreams. I guess the protestors dreams is to bother a bunch of stuck ups in suits who really don’t care about their plights. They should go out and do something about their situation. Network, look for jobs, learn new skills, call friends, post ads for jobs, send out resumes, pick up odds and ends jobs, start a blog, or anything that other hard working people do. Yes I am suggesting that these people “occupying” wall street are lazy.
You’re more than welcome to read the penultimate paragraph of my response to Kevin. Also, your tirade, self satisfying as I’m sure it was, offered no facts, only rant-quality opinions. It was unthoughtful, unsubstantiated, and unimpressive at best. I am sure that whether Kevin agrees with my response or not, he will calmly, and factually say why. And although I starkly disagree with Kevin, at least he recognizes the need to present facts in order to solidify a point and that simply regurgitating a rant heard by fellow unintelligible drunkards at the local bar from the night before will not do for the rest of us. It takes a little more intellectual energy than you’ve offered in this tangent to intelligibly in the type of debate that Kevin and I are participating in. I’m sure you’re not unintelligent, rather, yes, I am suggesting that the grey matter occupying your skull is lazy.
Tom. Thank you. You said it perfectly.. 🙂 It’s sad to me that so many Americans have such negative feelings towards this movement.
You are in great need of education yourself. It is obvious you have no idea what has been happening in this country and around the world for that matter. Maybe the reason you are unaffected by what is going on is because you either A) live with a parent or B) you have latched on to the bottom of some marketing scheme that is well on it’s way to failure. GROW UP….. and take off your shades because you are living in a fantasy land. Love you anyways because you are human and I have faith you will figure it out soon enough. See you around protesting. 🙂
You make an excellent point. If somebody disagrees with you, it is obviously because they live in a fantasy land and just don’t have the same information and education you do! Because obviously, if they knew what you knew they couldn’t possibly disagree. It’s impossible for two people to see the same evidence and come to different conclusions, after all.
If by fantasy land you mean: putting myself through school, graduating, and getting myself a high paying job and my own place by working hard and working smart, then yes. It’s not complicated. I’ll bring champagne the day you figure it out, m’dear.
Mister finance,yr country is getting a 3th world country lol and all in the name of emperialism/coorperatism.2 Fucking funny you use ad hom bs against a protester but not 1 word bout the warmachine or the retarded tax system(wich you probably enjoy a lot and got you motivated 2 write this crap blog).In most parts of the world school and healthcare is FREE.Care 2 explain that with yr logic(loans are needed)?War budget could feed,heal the whole planet and that’s not even a joke or sarcasm.If yr an economist then you would be last 1 on earth i would trust money 2…You cant even do the math and point out the problem.Now,skool me pls
What?
Again, this is why this movement is not being taken seriously.
care 2 xplain ur spllng?
Do you get off blasting Donald Trump, Gorden Gecko, Ronald Reagan mash-ups in your car on the morning commute. Horrible opinions, horrible writing. Probably best that you take this blog down before you do any more “investigative journalism”.
You will NOT get your point across by insulting the writing and not systematically justifying your position and debating his.
This is why no one will take you seriously and why most of the working class people, except the unions, think this is a big joke.
Do you speak for working class Tom?
Too bad you did not interview Nicki Angelo before wearing yourself out jumping to conclusions. She does have a degree but not in Art History. And you don’t know her work history, do you? . There is a reason she is part of the Welcome Committee. This young woman has skills! I’m going to suggest she start her own blog. lol
This is a person you decided to pick on. Not a thing or an idea! That would be different in my eyes.
Peace!
Great Pseudonym. Should have went with, “Yo Momma.” It carries more offensive weight.
Hm, we got some feisty commenters here…
My biggest complaint with this protest is its lack of organized goals. I mean what does this group really hope to achieve? If its a change in policies, then what kind of policies would they prefer to see in place? It seems to me that this guys are putting up a big show and just expecting someone else to fight the real battle for them.
I attend Umass Amherst which staged its own Occupy Amherst rally yesterday in coordination with the Wall Street protesters. The school newspaper wrote an article about it and many of the quotes from protesters were littered with cuss words and came across as very unprofessional. I don’t mind people voicing their opinions, but I feel like there are better ways to attack this issue.
Just my .02
Jacob, I agree with your point. It seems everyone protests, but what is the end result, and is it realistic? Also are you willing to backup your goals with better action than sitting on a side walk. It’s not a struggle that is going to take a few days, it will take years. Most people don’t keep it up that long.
-Nate
Agreed!
Wow… the Wall Street protesters are trolling the internet.
They have nothing better to do except sitting in a park on their Apple products (and going there yes that’s what many have)
you seem to be trolling this post pretty thoroughly tom. 🙂
Amen brother, except I actually have a history of reading and replying to this blog.
Thanks for playing though.
Amen to that! Tom has been around here a long time and he’s one of the most thoughtful commenters. It’s not trolling when it’s something you do all the time. Trolling would be showing up just to comment on this post, and then leaving to never come back.
Thank you Tom for all your insight on this post, as well as all the others you participate in. I really appreciate your input.
Personal responsibility certainly covers her student loan. Unemployment has hit a lot of people who are now angry at the sysytem. Some of which may be justified. For example, I think the banks should have paid fo rtheir own bail out. Any government spending should be for infrastructure, but at a reasonable cost.
You’ll get no argument from me about the bailout. I think bad banks should be allowed to fail, and good banks should step up and take their place. Capitalism works when the government doesn’t prop up bad companies.
But, should we be more mad at the banks for taking the bail outs (and paying them back, mind you) or should we be mad at the government for giving them? I think the government deserves the blame here, which is why I think this protest is misplaced.
Kevin,
The banks have not paid us back. They (the banker bankrolled servants of the people) are proposing to lend the banks more money, so that from that money they can pay us back and not incur the higher interest rate agreed upon by TARP. It’s such a shell game, and although most of us don’t understand it, we feel deep in our gut that something is terribly wrong with the system. And to change it, we the people, need to mobilize and our concerns need to be heard.
How do we level the playing field so that the people have as much say in government policy as corporations and banks who control the purse strings? We take back the power.
94% of the time, the candidates who raise the most money, win the election. OUR laws have been changed to facilitate the corporation’s candidates – who will bend policy to benefit them the most. (For example, deeming that corporations are ‘people’.)
The 99% are many, but the 1% control 93% of the wealth. The only way to restore balance is to come together as a group and take back control of our government.
But to your statement that OWS picked the wrong venue, I leave you to ponder this:
“I believe that banking institutions are more dangerous to our liberties than standing armies.”
Thomas Jefferson
Regards,
Karen
You said “The only way to restore balance is to come together as a group and take back control of our government.” I just don’t understand how you expect to impact government when you are protesting on Wall Street.
I know all about how dangerous a central bank can be. I want to audit and eventually end the Fed. That’s why I’m voting for Ron Paul in the Republican primary. Because that’s something that can actually make a difference. If everyone who is occupying Wall Street would get up and canvas neighborhoods for Ron Paul then we might actually make a political change that will affect the Fed. Sitting around in Manhattan isn’t going to do anything.
Ron Paul makes a lot of sense. There are alot of Ron Paul supporters in the movement. I voted for him in 2008. But this isn’t about one political party or candidate.
They also aren’t just sitting around. They are exchanging ideas and coming up with a consensus of purpose. Creating democracy. Direct democracy. People want to be heard. I know you do, because that’s why you write your blog. I think they would love to hear your ideas.
I hear a lot of people say that because they aren’t getting behind this party or that, they can’t affect a change. But they are wrong. It might take a while, but it took 30 years for our government to get thismessed up. What have we all got to lose?
Right now, their main focus is to organize.
Wall Street is their proving ground of sorts. But it has spread to many large cities across the nation. It is a grass roots movement. It is the people. And Wall Street is a good symbol of the greed that is pervasive in society as a whole. What better place to start?
And it is lead by the young people who aren’t ready to give up on the future of this great nation, or themselves.
It’s seriously wonderful to watch. You can watch it unfold on livestream.com or better yet – go to a local on the street Occupation site, or you can sit back and criticize what you haven’t even seen with your own eyes.
Everyone is welcome. Everyone with an open mind and peaceful intent to make a change.
Well if you are trying to create democracy, then I don’t want any part of that. A true democracy is an exceptionally dangerous system where the majority always wins. Guess what? The majority isn’t always right!
When you have a gathering that wants to talk about returning America to the Constitutionally based Republic that it was intended to be, then I’ll show up.
And unfortunately, I can’t just show up to my local WSO. I’ll be occupying my job tomorrow.
Such an entertaining post! I remember getting paid to protest too. It was so fun! Didn’t matter what. For the people!
Getting paid to protest? i want that gig!
Just check the weather report to see when these losers will head back home to mommy for some more of the free stuff that 0bama has yet to provide for them.
Wow !! Just Wow !!
What a bunch of pig headed, deluded, nasty selfish people you are, Obviously you have money tucked away and have not been affected by the recession.
Just wait for next year to come when your comfortable little lines are on the shit heap and then see who complains.
People like you are deluded sheep, pure and simple. This ‘movement’ is out of utter frustration from people from all walks of life, not just students and hippys wanting to complain about everything. there are people who have lost EVERYTHING because of the bankers greed.
“Obviously you have money tucked away and have not been affected by the recession.”
YES!! Exactly! We are responsible enough to save for times just like this!
Bankers had a part, yes, but they had about an equal part as you did. You conveniently forgot to mention the hundreds of thousands of people just like you, went out and bought overpriced houses they have no business buying. So, have you turned to one another and asked what part they played?
Mortgage backed securities, one of the catalysts of this debacle, couldn’t have been created without help from all the greedy people you are camping out with. Should they be bailed out for being greedy too?
“YES!! Exactly! We are responsible enough to save for times just like this!”
I have a question for you Tom. I am a daughter of 2 brave people who immigrated to escape a communist nation. Without any money, my parents came here to work and find a better life for me and my 2 siblings. They did okay, but we’re still considered low-income nearly poverty level household. They never had enough to get into a home so we’re still renting an apartment. I’m 18 and ready for college, but probably could not afford to go if there weren’t grants available. My question is Tom, how could my family possibly have been irresponsible for not being able to save for times like these?
You say that you were responsible enough to save, but really, you are privileged to be able to. There are many more families like mine who are not. And honestly, at that point these families, the friends I grew up with, are so caught up in trying to make that little bit to get by that these politics are something they can not grasp because their reality is focused on survival. These people are the true 99% that the government and system has failed. I feel not just you but all these people here a bit smug because obviously it’s beyond your comprehension of how hard others have it.
If I have to address to every individual situation, we might be here a while.
If you look at the personal savings rates over the past 20 years, the 99% you refer to did a terrible job saving money. The savings rate from 1959 to 2010 was 8.4%, from 1995 to 2010 3.4%.
Also, the people fighting to survive are not the 99%, they are the lowest 1%. I’m not saying they are irresponsible. Many of the remaining 98%, well, they just might have been part of the problem.
I don’t see any others directly asking you to address their situation like I have but sure.
It’s hard for me to see that those fighting to survive are the lowest 1% when last year the poverty level rose to 15.1%. That’s still over 45 million people making just over 11k a year. And those who make 15 or 20k, are they really off that much better? ridiculous.
Fighting to survive is a pretty strong phrase.
I would say those who make only $20K per year actually can live well, check this guy out, and he lives in a very expensive area:
http://financiallyfit.yahoo.com/finance/article-113623-11237-3-the-secret-to-living-well-on-20000-a-year?hp=true?ywaad=ad0035&nc
I have some serious questions for someone only making $11K per year. With the number of help-wanted signs I see all over (PT jobs are available), I find it hard to believe someone working 40 hours a week (at 1 or more jobs) will only make $11K per year, as that is well below minimum wage.
Gee Tom, I have to agree w/’interesting point’ – you do sound a little condescending and hard-hearted. You do also jump to a lot of assumptions. Here this young lady has poured out her heart, and it sounds like her entire family has worked and struggled to survive, and through no fault of their own, have not been able to achieve a nice cushion of savings, let alone be able to afford an education.
All sounds perfectly respectable and honorable to me. And you reply with a bunch of statistics about how Americans don’t save enough?
Not cool. People don’t care how much you know, until they know how much you care.
Can’t save what you don’t have. Perhaps someday you will be in a position to be able to have some compassion on those who have worked hard all their lives, and through no fault of their own, have continued to struggle and never achieve the dream.
BTW, before you leap to the conclusion that I am a bleeding heart liberal, I am a Republican, conservative in all issues, own my own home, am a professional, make a 6 figure income, and am practically debt free.
I am also a human being. And I believe that an honest man who works hard for a living should not be looked down upon.
So you are now stalking female protesters FB pages and posting personal info about them? What a guy. Oh and edit your post, there are several words spelled incorrectly. Your report is so skewed and the photo is obviously cherry picked. I saw an 87 year old woman down there with a sign that was about the cuts to S.S. I saw a ton of working class people wanting accountability regarding the bail outs. Again you have missed the entire point and stalking young women online shows exactly what kind of person you really are.
There have been no cuts to SS.
There should be. Anyone at the protest asking for cuts to SS?
It’s an unsustainable and antiquated system.
And to add, a message to the original poster.
YOU and your disgusting attitude is what is wrong with America today.
by the way, before you label me as a good for nothing idiot, I am a degree educated married man, father of two who has been a business man for the last 20 years and I had to shut it all down in 2008 because of the banks refusing to give us credit anymore even though we had a first class rating. ALL THIS because of their fuck up. NOT MINE.
you’re blaming banks for your companies decline? Why would you need credit from evil banks? Just use your own working capital and net profits no?
My father’s business has also suffered because the banks are now reluctant to give us credit, despite our super-high credit score. Rather than adopting a ‘victim’ mentality, however, we spent several days brainstorming — and then testing — alternate ways of handing our cash flow so that we could keep the company alive through hard times.
Hard times will always happen. This is when you have to be tough, and refuse to think of yourself as the ‘victim’ of the banks. If you can adapt to changing conditions, your business can make it through the hard times. It’s not easy, but if you want your business to live, it’s your job.
Thank you Paula. I think that’s what’s at heart here. Working on solutions to the problems we all face instead of blaming others.
It’s a great reminder of why credit isn’t always the answer. In fact, if it wasn’t for the rampant acceptance of credit use by the 99%’rs (as a group) then those “evil bankers” wouldn’t have been given the chance to have such an effect on the economy. One thing is for certain. A big complaint of the OWS group is about the debt. I don’t think ANYONE put a gun to the proverbial heads and said you MUST have a loan, Nowhere did they say “If you don’t sign on this line for your loans then your life will be ruined”
Ah, the “let her die” crowd is posting on the internet. Seems like this “writer” picks one example out of the 99% to support the Trillion Dollar Money Grab that happened on Wall St. and call them “job creators”. This “writer” needs to do some research. We saw a DECADE of lost jobs and stagnant wages. The worst job growth since World War II under the last regime. America is waking up to the Trickle Down “job creators” myth. Looks like some one is still drinking the Kool-Aid. Thank goodness the MAJORITY of Americans anger is well placed, the Wall St. and Corporate Welfare Queens. Good!
You do know that another recession was starting before “the last regime” even started running for election. Many of those investors are working to raise capital for investing in factories here in the US and yes, in several other countries like China. If, by using your political logic” we look at the elections, then don’t forget that the economy started it’s free-fall in 2007. Guess who took over congress then? Who fought to prevent an investigation into accounting fraud in the GSE known as Fannie & Freddie where the snowball started gaining speed and size. Do more research then just reading Mother Jones & Daily Kos please!
Swing and a miss. No ones buying your “spontaneous combustion” economic theory. The Bush Epic Failure started in 2000. Strap on some personal responsibility there sparky. Free fall started when Bush allowed 9/11 to happen and then lied about WMDs to start an UNPAID for war in Iraq. Then the Republican Congress passed the Bush Tax Spending (oh, you call them tax cuts) still spending when they go UNPAID for. In 2003 Bush pushed the Housing Initiative for “no down payment loans” (just a way to juice his failing economy) which ramped up the subprime mess. In 2003, during the height of the predatory lending crisis, Bush’s OCC stripped Consumer Protection Laws, preempting all state predatory lending laws, thereby rendering them inoperative. 50 State’s Attorney General fought Bush who was standing with the banks, but Bush shut them down. 99% aren’t buying the spin anymore. Good Luck with the Lies! Keep drinking the Trickle Down Kool Aid, the rest of America isn’t. Go Occupy!
Oh wow…
Bush allowed 9/11? How about you do some research on that one. The terrorists were training here well before Bush came into office.
Pick up the book: Why America Slept, Posner, an investigative journalist specializing the Middle East, explains the whole thing. Clinton had an unbelievable amount of opportunities. He was “busy” during that period, if you remember. So to blame Bush is flat out wrong.
Iraq war is unpaid for, true, but so is Social Security, Medicare and 40% of Congressional spending. How about we cut those programs first? These wars, while very unpopular here, are making it safer for us. Not only are we actively stationed in the most volatile place on earth, we are killing the most ruthless terrorists. They are getting more brazen, look at the Iran attempt to kill the Saudi ambassador on our soil!!! You’ll say that we are actually creating more terrorists, are we? Look at the Arab Spring, people are not happy with ruthless dictators anymore. You don’t think they are seeing the good we are doing in Iraq? We are doing a lot of good, it’s taking a while, but when you start over, it takes a long time to recover. Don’t read into all of the hype on how we are failing, we toppled a dictator where it was proven that he financed terror.
Regarding “no downpayment loans”, I’m sorry, who put a gun to the home buyers’ heads? This subprime mess is 75% a personal responsibility problem, the other 25% is on the banks, Congress and ratings agencies. If the consumers didn’t take out loans, and buy into idiotic sales pitches, there would be no subprime mess. How about the 99% take some responsibility themselves?
Bush was warned, quit making excuses for the epic failure. Clinton was busy alright with usual right wing witch hunt to the tune of $86 million of taxpayer money that accomplished nothing (Grand Old sPenders are experts at that). They are incapable of doing the work they were sent to do in D.C. The lastest teabagger downgrade has given them an 82% disapproval rating, surprise! He was an unfit leader and soft on terror. He even threw in the towel and closed down the OBL CIA Unit in 2006. BTW, one of the hallmarks of fascism is scapegoating others, something the right does very well. Home owners didn’t jack up prices and sell sub prime mortgages. Home owners didn’t rate worthless pieces of paper as AAA wrap them up and sell toxic assets off to unknowing investors. Deregulation is a disaster and the 99% know that. But I guess some like to keep going back to their abusers. Until the Cons take personal responsibility for the $12 Trillion in debt they left this country, they have no room to talk about personal responsibility. “Personal responsibility” and “conservative” is all lip service, always has been. Neither apply to the right.
“I don’t know where bin Laden is. I have no idea and really don’t care. It’s not that important. It’s not our priority.”
– G.W. Bush, 3/13/02
“I am truly not that concerned about him.”
– G.W. Bush, repsonding to a question about bin Laden’s whereabouts,
3/13/02
If Bush allowed 9/11, so did Clinton, who knew about terrorists in the country 1 YEAR before. He was too wrapped up in his BS to care. Also, the Clinton administration actively prevented information sharing across agency lines! Talk about a failure! If you want to blame Bush, fine, I admit it was an epic failure, but Clinton shares equally in the blame for that epic failure.
But that’s not what this is about… this is about Wall Street and the financial crisis.
Did you know that deregulation of the financial markets started under Clinton in 1999? He didn’t have to sign any legislation deregulating banks. He and the Republican controlled congress negotiated that package. He could have told them to pound sand.
Also, this:
Beginning in 1992, the government required Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac to direct a substantial portion of their mortgage financing to borrowers who were at or below the median income in their communities. The original legislative quota was 30%. But the Department of Housing and Urban Development was given authority to adjust it, and through the Bill Clinton and George W. Bush administrations HUD raised the quota to 50% by 2000 and 55% by 2007.
– via WSJ
You fail to mention that the Left is just as culpable in all of this. You lambaste scapegoating, but you are using the right as the scapegoat.
As for housing prices. Consumers drove the market! You think banks set real estate prices?
You are correct in saying that home owners didn’t rate junk securities as AAA, nor did I. I said that ratings agencies played a part, if not a larger part than banks and financial institutions. I said that banks, financial institutions and ratings agencies were half the problem, the other half was a lot of people in the 99% that were greedy and wanted to own a home. You can talk predatory lending and all that, but it’s still the consumer who signs on the dotted line and still the consumer who has to do just a minutes worth of research to see that they cannot afford that loan.
You have no clue do you? Bashing someone for protesting their ideas, your site is bullshit and you should take it down for tainting anybody’s mind who finds this garbage to read.
One mans garbage is another mans treasure
If your going to bash an idea then bash the idea, and at least do some more reasearch. Also, the next time you link people to the idea it should be more than one person speaking. You obviously can’t get the full concept and feel of the movement is you JUST talk to ONE person. You’ve got to communicate! Just some helpfull criticism for your next entry.
Sincerly, Mauga 🙂
If you don’t know why people are protesting you must live in a very priviledged little bubble. Let me break it down for you. In 2008 the greatest bank heist in history occurred, and it was perpetrated by the banks/financial institutions themselves, aided and abbetted by the politicians after the fact. Consequently millions are now facing an austere future; reduced wages (if you’re lucky enough to have a job!) increased cost of living, higher taxes (both direct and stealth); but that needn’t concern the top few percent; they’ll pay less taxes in the name of ‘job creation’; a euphemism for welfare for the rich.
Don’t be thinking this is just an American phenomenon; it’s global, and the response will be global!
Wall Street and equivalent financial districts around the globe are exactly the right places to be protesting; why shake your fist at the wizard when you can see the man behind the curtain pulling the levers and stuffing his pockets with OUR money?
Expect Us, Brother.
As I stated above, I don’t agree with the bailouts. However, I think you are shaking your fist at the wizard when you protest Wall Street and not the government. The source of the bailout is government. If the government hadn’t offered a bailout, then Wall Street couldn’t have taken it.
And don’t forget that TARP was not a gift; it was a loan. Most companies paid the government (aka taypayers) back with interest. The total estimated cost of TARP over the lifetime of the program is around $100 billion.
http://cbo.gov/ftpdocs/112xx/doc11227/03-17-TARP.pdf
By comparison, the federal government handed out $322 billion in free money (not loans) to “the people” in the form of welfare in 2008 alone, with more being handed out every year. It took four months of 2008 to give away as much money as TARP costs in a lifetime. If you’re pissed about your tax dollars disappearing, I’m very confused why you are picking the TARP bailout as your target.
http://www.usgovernmentspending.com/year_spending_2008USbt_12bs1n#usgs302
Kevin, kevin, kevin…where to start?
First of all, you seem to be under the assumption that I am an American; not your fault, after all I gave no clues as to who I am, but I’m not, I’m from the UK – Northern Ireland to be precise. Why should I care about what’s happening in America? You may well ask. Well, as I said before this is a global phenomena; finance is global and its affects are global, hence the response will be global.
You say that the source of the bail-out was the government – well that’s undeniably true both in your country and mine; but it rather misses the point: the financial institutions have been allowed to grow too big to fail! And why? because they had/have the wealth to fund the political parties and they naturally expect to be protected. Can you honestly deny that they don’t have an egregiously disproportionate influence on our respective governments?
If your answer is no, then I would have to suspect you of either being disingenuous or naive (of course I wouldn’t want to commit the logical fallacy of a false dichotomy; other possibilities are, misinformed, deluded, willfully ignorant; there may be more; this list is not exhaustive), I think we both know the answer.
That’s not to say that plebs like me don’t also share responsibility! We do, we allowed ourselves to be distracted by false dilemnas and dramas presented in the corporate owned media, entertained by TV ‘reality shows’ and assured by the professional phantoms of politics that everything would be better if we just voted for them – well it isn’t! No matter if you vote Democrat or Republican, Labour or Conservative, DUP or Sinn Fein.
Being on the other side of the Atlantic I won’t comment on the specifics of your governments policies devised to aid the corporations except to say…as in my country – they’re devised to help the corporations, not the majority of hard working people!
If I’m wrong, please disabuse me of my notion, I don’t want to labour under false ideas. You could help me by honestly answering the following:
How much money do corporations spend on sponsoring the election campaigns of the two main parties in your country?
How much money do the corporations spend lobbying said political parties when in office?
How many executives of those same corporations end up being appointed to high status positions within the government.
Has unemployment increased or decreased since the bail-outs?
Have public services been improved/maintained or cut since the bail-outs?
Has the cost of living increased or, lets be fair, stayed the same in real terms since the bail-outs?
Have foreclosures increased or….you get the picture!
Can you honestly blame the majority of people for saying enough is enough?
In closing, You accuse Nicki of not having a sense of personal responsibility, well maybe you’re right, because just maybe she has a sense of extrapersonal responsibility: concern for her fellow citizens, how are they going to afford an education? How can they afford a roof over their head, how do we care for the disabled, the old and infirm? How do we prevent the exploitation of our fellow human beings? How do we find jobs that provide a decent standard of living? How can we prosper without depleting the earths natural resources? How do we end discrimination against ethnic minorites, gays, lesbians, atheists…the list is endless?
If that’s indicative of a lack of personal responsibility, then I’d have that over the self-serving kind any day.
So don’t worry we are going to take responsiblity and I’m sure you’ll be the first to applaud.
Peace brother.
I agree with just about everything you said. America is living in a world of corporatism, not capitalism. I recognize the issues that this group of people is trying to address. I agree with many of them. Get companies out of politics. Throw out the tax code and eliminate loopholes. Empower people to have personal liberty.
If these protesters want all of these things, then they would do well to stop hanging out on Wall Street and start campaigning for Ron Paul. It’s not the movement as a whole I disagree with; it is the fact the way they are manifesting their protest. If you want to address any of these problems you need to do it at the ballot box, not on the streets of NYC
Not being an American, I don’t know much about Ron Paul.
He may be the best thing since sliced bread for all I know; but what happens if he loses the election?
What if he’s elected and turns out to be another false messiah?
What if he’s elected and turns out to be the best president ‘evah’, then what about the next person elected after him?
Can you see the problem here? Investing so much hope and expectation on one person is the problem. The system needs reformed. Can’t you see that?
I’m not pretending to have all the answers, but at least I think the debate is worth having.
Damn!!!!!!
That was intended for paul’s piece above this one. Damn!
Now you know why Obama will be re-elected. Nobody blames the gov’t, only rich people.
That and the Republicans aren’t fielding any legitimate candidates.
Except Jon Huntsman… oh how I wish Independents could vote in primaries…
I can understand your desire and right to express your viewpoint regarding the Occupy Wall Street protests, but find it hugely offensive to see you single out one individual, without knowing her except for presumptions based on her Facebook page, yet making vast generalizations and attacks on her character. It’s really disheartening.
If you read the article, it is focused on her comments she made to reporters, not her facebook page. And I’m not attacking her character; I’m attacking her ideas and the way she is demonstrating to support them.
If she’s mad about unemployment or student loans or health insurance, that’s great for her. I just think she would be better off protesting the people who could actually do something about those issues.
Wall Street is the government. Politicians, the prez and crew, all puppets of the money from Wall Street. You think the bailouts was the govt.s idea? Like some someone suggested – DO SOME RESEARCH.
Last I checked, corporations couldn’t vote. If you don’t like your politicians, vote them out. Like Kevin said, protest at the ballot box, not at a faceless corporation.
Again, all issues with the government, not Wall Street. In fact, my retirement is tied to all of those corporations doing well!!! Where is your retirement money located?
I agree with Rachel, “I can understand your desire and right to express your viewpoint regarding the Occupy Wall Street protests, but find it hugely offensive to see you single out one individual, without knowing her except for presumptions based on her Facebook page, yet making vast generalizations and attacks on her character. It’s really disheartening.”
No matter your personal or political beliefs attacking someone is part of the problem in the country. Although it is your right to blog about whatever you like attacking someone and outright slandering them is not the way to do business.
This movement is only going to get bigger. It has been stymied for too long. The Middle East jump started it. Love one another. Care for one another. This is our authentic selves: lovers and nurturers.
@Lissy, the Arab Spring was for more freedom. This protest is for? What? Less freedom. After all I see signs related to socialism, communism, and now has union support.
Well said, Investor Junkie!! If there was a “like” button, I’d “like” your comment.
keep asleep little sheep.
Kevin,
This is amusing, on a blog predominately focusing on personal finance, frugality, and investing, you suddenly have this many respondants who are violently angry about your point of view
You hardly keep it a secret where you stand politicaly, especialy on economic policy. Somebody even accused you of “having some money tucked away”, What kind of personal finance blogger are you?! These people couldn’t possibly be regular readers. Its amazing how quickly they get the word out once they decide to protest or post angry messages on a blog. If only prosperity were so easy.
Anonymous,
I see no violently angry people here. But I do see inflamatory language from the few of you who refuse to get educated on the subject of OWS.
It’s a big internet out there. Open you eyes and your mind.
Did you know that we as a countrly are currently dead last in the world in upward economic mobility? Is that really the America you want to live in?
OWS is a coming together of people who see the destruction of our way of life and are trying to come up with a solution.
It is as varied in purpose and ideas as the people who occupy it.
It is not bankrolled or staged like the recent Tea Party ‘movement’, although I think many people in that group were truly genuine in their hope to bring about change.
Which is why you see many of them currently checking out the OWS movement. Along with Democrats, Republicans, Libertarian, etc. Come join us! 🙂
Regards,
Karen
Karen,
I see no solutions coming from the OWS protests. I just see a bunch of complaints and no focus.
It’s an open forum to generate ideas for solutions. How can you blame a group of people for not coming to the table with a full slab of concrete ideas when our own congress can’t even do that?
Well, to Kevin’s point, shouldn’t you be telling Congress about your ideas?
Not broadcasting them to Wall Street. Frankly, the more you protest Wall Street, the more it looks like the “have nots” complaining about the “haves”.
Now if you organized a massive protest on the steps of the Hill, then you’d make more of an impact.
But it is being effective. People are talking, opinions are getting heard, and congress is responding.
How is Congress responding? This isn’t rhetorical.
I’ve been following the news and haven’t seen any planned policy changes. If they are, then more power to them, but I haven’t heard about any changes. The only responses I’ve seen from Congress are populist statements trying to gain votes.
I don’t understand protesters, in general. However, their point is to, well, make a point. I think it’s stupid, but at least they now have a very prominent voice. I guess we can liken it to any other movement. To be clear, I think it’s stupid because I don’t understand the desired outcome. If someone can explain what the desired outcome is, maybe I’ll join in. Meh. Maybe not.
On another note, great post, Kevin! It’s controversial, entertaining, and apparently optimized well for the web. 🙂
Thanks Romeo. I don’t think it’s necessarily optimized for the web as much as it’s just being mentioned a lot on people’s facebooks and this live stream of occupy wall street. http://livestream.com/globalrevolution
Apparently I’ve causes quite a stir with these protesters and they are trying to gang up on me. But as you know, I can take the heat. 🙂
I don’t know, Kevin. If you haven’t done so in a while, you better back up all of your posts. Just saying. Someone took down Jenny’s blog (www.thejennypincher.com) earlier this year.
Now, about this live stream…Hmm. Maybe I should also capitalize on it. 🙂
Great idea. I would hope these peaceably assembled people wouldn’t attack my site, but who knows? Some of these comments haven’t seemed so “peaceably” to me. Backup is done.
Don’t flatter yourself.
Romeo,
The point of protestors is to bring about change. This is how the civil rights movement brought about political and cultural change that transformed all the institutions of our society (political, educational, business, entertainment, military, etc.). All that change started with a little woman on a bus. It is the same mechanism that was at work with the protestors of the Vietnam War.
Don’t mock or underestimate the power of peaceable assembly or protests of the populace.
Of course, you don’t want tontear something down unless yo can replace t with something better. But don’t denigrate this movement as a possible catalyst for change.
Peace.
Let’s not kid ourselves, Protestors bring change.
That little woman on the bus didn’t bring about change because she stood up for what she believed in, per se’. She was thrown in jail. What changed the policies was the cost of the boycot. Blacks were the main bus riders. Therefore, the Montgomery Bus Boycott affected the city’s revenues when people decided to no longer ride.
Let’s compare this to the unemployed-but-still-paying-$5-$12 per account-at Bank of America occupiers of Wall street. Who are they hurting? No one but themselves. If you want to hurt someone, screw with their bottom lines. Boycotts hurt corporations, not protests!
“If you want to hurt someone, screw with their bottom lines.
Boycotts hurt corporations…”
Can’t argue with that Romeo!
Kevin McKee – I came to take a look at your site as it was posted on the livefeed. I won’t waste my time to reiterate what has already been said except to say that I agree with all of the above posts that don’t agree with you. – NJ mom of 6, broker in 2 states, RN, foster mom. Won’t be back here again so goodnight…
The issue is how corporations owned by 1% use immoral and unlawful tactics to control our government, our people, our laws, and our economy. EVERYTHING else is secondary… and has created the ripple effect into EVERYTHING… education, healthcare, loans, real estate, etc. Everyone has been, in one way or another, effected by the corporations and banking gambling with “our” money, pocketing the profits for themselves while they claiming their corporations are penniless and in need of billions of dollars in bailouts. And its not just in the U.S.
Educate yourself about the OccupyWallSt movement instead of relying on a SINGLE source you purposefully choose to back your opinion on instead of doing any actual intelligent research on the topic.
Read the OFFICIAL Declaration of the Occupation of New York City here IF you are truly interested in FACTS about what this movement is about: http://nycga.cc/2011/09/30/declaration-of-the-occupation-of-new-york-city/
OWS is not creating a democracy, as you are defining it. And if you look it up, you will see there are many forms of democracy. So forget the label.
They are using a democratic process to come to a CONSENSUS of the people.
If one person objects, the subject is tabled and discussed at a later time.
Also – livestream.com/globalrevolution has the live feed, but there are also many links on the page that will lead you to a plethora of information.
And I too will go to work tomorrow, alas, and only be with OWS protesters in spirit.
From the Declaration of the Occupation of new York City: (a living document, subject to change)
“We come to you at a time when corporations, which place profit over people, self-interest over justice, and oppression over equality, run our governments. We have peaceably assembled here, as is our right, to let facts be known.”
k
I have read the declaration, and I have to take issue with part of it that you quoted. You say, “We have peaceably assembled here, as is our right…”
You’re actually trespassing on private property. I just wanted to make sure you were aware. http://money.cnn.com/2011/10/06/news/companies/occupy_wall_street_park/?source=cnn_bin
Contrary to your belief… everyone that has given even the smallest amount of intellect on OWS KNOWS it is private property, ESPECIALLY SO, the protesters themselves, which is why they have no tents nor tarps erected… and are doing everything they can to follow the park’s rules as well as having a “sanitation committee”.
IF they were trespassing and did not have continued permission from Brookfield to be there…. Brookfield would have had them removed and the NYPD would be more than happy to oblige them in removing them. But yet again, you are incorrect.
“The park was built originally in a 1968 deal between the builders of the U.S. Steel tower (the building presently called One Liberty) that allowed them to build nine stories higher than zoning laws permitted in exchange for creating a PUBLIC plaza that would BY LAW be open TO THE PUBLIC and subject to various restrictions in its design and operation meant to ENSURE that the park would be useful to THE PUBLIC
“These aren’t privately-owned spaces that the developers have in their magnanimity allowed the public to use,” said Gregory Smithsimon, an assistant professor of urban sociology at Brooklyn College and author of The Beach Beneath the Streets: Contesting New York City’s Public Spaces. “There’s really an EXPLICIT CONTRACT between the developer and the public.”
It’s a contract enshrined, in part, in New York City law regulating the existence of “bonus plazas” and other publicly owned private spaces.
When it comes to Zuccotti Park, that agreement is also enshrined in city records dating back to the 1960s, obtained by Smithsimon under a Freedom of Information Law request this week.”
“PARKS ARE, GENERALLY SPEAKING, WHAT PEOPLE make of them. And at the moment, this one is being used not as a sandwich-eating spot for area workers, a usual use, but as the home base of a protest quickly gathering global attention.”
So actually, Occupy Wall Street protesters ARE NOT trepassing. I just wanted to make sure you were aware.
http://www.capitalnewyork.com/article/culture/2011/10/3608746/owners-park-center-occupy-wall-street-protests-are-losing-patience-w
@Kevin:
Oh the irony. A company that owns the property that also owns many bank buildings. They should stay at one of the public parts. Oh that’s right, the police would kick them out when the close.
I believe the company has been very lenient with this disorganized group so far.
Lol, somehow you ALWAYS have a way of articulating the exact opposite of what I think 🙂
While on the one hand I agree that we need to take personal responsibility for our choices (i.e., student loans) there are a lot of structural issues at play here that individuals can’t control. For example, cost of living has been rising over the past two generations while real wages haven’t. It seems like conservatives always think that people who complain about eroded wages are just lazy – don’t get me wrong, there are a LOT of lazy ass people out there. But those aren’t the people the protesters are concerned about. They’re concerned about the people who ARE working hard and living responsibly but are seeing their ability to save for retirement and college educations for their kids being eaten into by a persistent shrinking of what their dollars will buy.
This frustration is compounded by the rapid pace at which corporate profits and Wall Street paychecks have grown, completely outpacing inflation. This is why people who are informed about growing income inequality in the US are enraged about it – not just for personal reasons, but for the sake of the future of our nation. Ask any historian or economist why America boomed after WWII – because of the purchasing power of the large middle class. When the middle class shrinks, the whole nation suffers.
One last thing: I’m an East Coast girl and know many people who work in the financial sector, many in NYC – on Wall Street and elsewhere. They don’t work any harder than anyone else in the professional world, and most of them admit it. Yes, their hours are LONG, but a lot of “work” time is spent in nice bars and restaurants, eating out of the fully stocked corporate kitchen, traveling to exotic locations for corporate retreats, etc. They live very nicely and are WAY overcompensated for the work that they do – most of them admit that, too.
You’ll have to define real wages. Are these skilled or unskilled workers, white or blue collar.
Each of these have very different salary trends. I can speak for white collar engineering in that the trend is outpacing inflation and COL.
Increasing corporate profits benefit anyone who’s invested in the stock market. This includes pensions. We should be cheering corporate profits.
Wall Street paychecks are tied to profit as well. With the advent of HFTs and other trading mediums, it’s much easier to make a lot of money on Wall Street with little effort. On the flip side, it’s also very easy to lose a lot of money.
Income inequality is the he hands of the people. We have the choice to increase our incomes by getting a degree or training for more skills. How many people are actually making these choices? They are extremely tough, both my wife and I work full time and go to school part time. It’s a strain, but when we graduate, our incomes will increase and we can pay back the loans. The long term benefits outweigh the short term pain.
i’m sure you never expected the response. that’s what the 99% can do. be aware, this doesn’t end here for us, but your site is worthless.
His site is worthless? Maybe you should actually read it and heed some of his advice.
Wow, now I know why you were a finalist for most controversial personal finance blog. Good job for spurring a lively discussion!
I am not a supporter of Occupy (because their protest in Denver almost caused me being late for work, as police had to block certain streets when they marched), but I think it’s naive to assume that everyone could just work harder on getting a job, insurance and financial stability nowadays. Getting a job is hard! Almost every 10th person is unemployed in America! Are you saying that 10% of our society are just a bunch of lazy losers with BA degrees and no sense of financial responsibility?! In order to get health insurance, you have to be a full time employee or an extremely healthy adult under 30. And the latter condition doesn’t guarantee you low rates. Not every company offers great benefits, and in service industry it may take years to become full-time. College loan debt gets worse if you are unemployed, because you cannot write it off in bankruptcy. Saying: “Oh, just pay it off with your new job on Wall Street!” just shows author’s total ignorance and his unawareness of poverty and hardship in our society.
Actually… the unemployment rate for Americans with Bachelors degrees or higher is only 4.2%, more than half of the total unemployment rate. That rate has also been on the decline over the past 6 months. It was at 4.5% in May.
The unemployment rate also declines significantly as you gain more education:
No high school diploma – 14%
High school grad – 9.7%
Associates – 8.4%
College degree or higher – 4.2%
While it’s risky to finance your education, you’re much more likely to be employed with a degree. I should caveat that by saying, you should also be picking a degree that is in high demand like engineering.
I’m originally from a third-world country. We would LOVE to have taxpayers subsidize guaranteed loans that send us to college, like Americans do. If we got that, and we could educate our people, we’d be dancing in the streets with joy — we wouldn’t be mad that we have to pay the loans back.
And let’s assume that, for some reason, we fall on tough times and we can’t pay back our loans. It’s not so bad here. America will never jail you for being a debtor. The people from my native country would LOVE to have a legal system that doesn’t lock us in jail if we can’t repay our debt.
And we would LOVE to have access to first-class health care, like the U.S. does (and I say that as someone who doesn’t get company health insurance. I pay for my own health care.)
Yeah, my native country isn’t officially “communist” but our Parliamentary majority is often from our Communist Party. There’s no opportunity to better our lives there. Is it any wonder why the brightest minds are moving to other, stronger, better and more free countries?
I think the biggest problem with this protest is that the so called “99%” refuses to take any responsibility in this.
1% controls the money, but 99% controls the votes. The 99% refuses to make necessary cuts to Medicare, they refuse to reform Social Security, they refuse to reform the tax code.
Bankers, financial institutions and ratings agencies should all take equal blame for this recession and “crisis”. Those entities are only half of the equation. The other half is the 99%. We (I am included in that) took out mortgages we couldn’t afford. We leveraged ourselves up to our eyeballs. We bought a whole bunch of stuff we couldn’t afford. We provided the junk mortgages in the crazy securities. None of this would be possible without our help.
So, yes, the income gaps are widening, but we all need to take a good hard look in the mirror before we blame the rich.
Re-read that, and I am not part of those who took out more than they could afford. I am part of the 99%, however.
OWS and “Ron Paul” are just two faces of the same coin. One day they will realize that and we will finally be able to move forward.
I completely agree with this article. These people occupying wall street need to stop bothering those who actually work for a living and go out and look for a job. They need to take responsibilty for themselves and face their reality. No one forced them to take out loans. Capitalism works, but the key word is works.
Awesome post! Too bad most people our/your age don’t see the picture as it truly is…
Here is some good answer to your post : http://www.cnn.com/2011/10/05/opinion/rushkoff-occupy-wall-street/index.html
You are not really that into symbolism are you? You do realize that the protesters aren’t trying to bring down Wall St. They protest there because it’s a focus point where people will see them and hear their messages. They are not, literally, saying we should ‘bring down’ or ‘end’ Wall St. They are occupying it. As a means to bring attention to what they see as social injustices.
No one would even pay attention if they ‘occupied’ my neighbor’s front yard. There’s that symbolism thing, again.
You took the statements of one person and applied them to a whole group of people. That is called ‘prejudice.”
Your response reminds me of when I was a kid and my father used to tell me to get a haircut and go get a job. Or, as he meant: conform and leave me alone. Not any more helpful than your statements. Both you think conforming and getting a job are the only choices. You may have been shoehorned into conformity by society. Not everyone has. Not everyone wants to be. And I say, “Thank, God,” they don’t.
Get past your prejudice and learn what their hopes and dreams are. Learn what they believe to be socially unjust. Try to understand them, instead of mocking them. Your approach makes me think you are intolerant, out of touch and afraid of change and different ideas. And that what is happening scares you to death.
You’re chasing your America dream, let them chase theirs.
P.S.–I spent most of my adult life chasing the same dream you are chasing – although something tells me you haven’t been very successful at it. (You waste too much time working on things that matter to you — like this blog.) Working 16 hours a day, seven days a week. Getting rich without thought to anything around me or to who I might be harmed by my actions..
When I was in my mid-forties, I realized I’d spent my life making other people money. People who never even acknowledged my existence. Doing things that made miserable. So, I quit. Dropped out. Walked away from it. Moved to a cabin in the woods in where I am as happy as I will ever be. It is difficult, I look around and realize I am no longer twenty, he’ll, I not even 40 anymore. I wonder where my life went? Why I spent it in a ceaseless chase after money. Why there is so little of it left.
The worst part of this loneliness. I really would like to have shared this with my ex-wife. The one that divorced d me because I was never around and never paid attention to her. The people I would like to know, who ask what I did for a living and I am ashamed to say, “I walked over people’s dead bodies to make money. The ones that weren’t already dead, I helped kill. (Now, I cut firewood to sell to the Rubes in the city who can’t even look up from their desks long enough to insure their family’s basic needs. Sad.)
(Everyone where I live has had an, “OMG” moment. A moment where they have realized they would have rather gone fishing then using other people to get rich. If you are here and you haven’t had this moment, please leave as much of your tourism dollars as you have and then LEAVE. Come back next year, with more money for us and we will continue acting quaint to amuse you.
http://vimeo.com/25278394
Please watch. Then decide for yourself.
Hello Kevin McKee. This is Nicki Angelo. I was just directed to this blog. It’s a pleasure to be speaking with you. I disagree with what you say, but I would defend to my death your right to say it. I hope, as a fellow American, you feel the same way about my right to send you a reply.
It’s funny how neither the “huge bed” nor the animals depicted in the huge bed belong to me, though this is the basis for your judgment of me personally. They both belong to a friend. It’s also funny how the pictures you used to judge me were literally posted over three years ago.
Comedic things set aside, why would you make assumptions about an individual’s work history? In my time at Zuccotti Park, I’ve spoken to countless individuals, from teachers to cops, and MANY small business owners, who have been out of work since the economy fell in 2008. These are all hard working individuals who have spent most of their lives working and planning only to watch their livelihoods collapse.
Since you do not know my personal work history, but have decided to make assumptions about it, let me tell you the actual deal. I never had less than two jobs, and for a while was working three, the entire time I was a full-time student in college. I have experienced the 70-80 hour weeks you claim only fat cats on Wall Street are subject to. I have been out of consistent, stable work since mid-2009 and since then I have sent out hundreds, if not a thousand resumes and applications (as well as making visits to local businesses) to no avail. Not only that, but the majority of the time I’ve spent unemployed, I’ve been caring for my 89-year-old grandfather, a WWII Veteran who suffers from Alheizmer’s disease and is unable to care for himself.
I graduated seven months after the Stock Market crash in October 2008. At the time of the spark of the financial crisis I had two jobs, both with small businesses. I was laid off from one in December 2008 because the owner could no longer afford paying my co-workers and me. He was forced to take the majority of the shifts himself and took the help of some friends he did not have to pay to take the others. I was able to stay with my second job until late 2009, though my hours had been consistently cut beginning in January. The company eventually filed for bankruptcy and closed its doors.
All in all, your judgments on my character are silly, and to judge this entire movement on the fact that I have a friend who owns a nice bed is out of line. You’re also wrong in the sense that you think one person could embody this entire movement. I am one person in a vast group of frustrated Americans. When asked what issues are affecting me, I answer truthfully (and please don’t think there aren’t many others who have been affected by the same issues because there are), but there are also many other problems Americans are facing. My story is only one story out of the thousands of individuals who have been part of this demonstration.
Just because I am not a middle-aged person who has worked for decades only to have my home foreclosed on does not mean I do not stand up with them and support them. Likewise, this doesn’t mean that there aren’t many middle-aged (and older) occupiers who stand up and support the new graduates who want desperately to find their place in America’s workforce and build a future for themselves. We stand with them, they stand with us. We stand together to try to build an America where equal opportunity is a tangible actuality, not just a noble idea. We are all here for different reasons but we stand united to try to fix what is wrong with this beautiful country. My “sense of responsibility” is to this nation, to the new graduates, to the laid-off workers, to the sick forced to tough it out rather than pay hospital bills, to the American people.
You also do not understand this movement if you think we are protesting “successful people on Wall Street.” These hardworking individuals are more often than not, part of the 99% too. These men and women are the ones who stop by Zuccotti Park and lend us the most support and encouragement. They are in complete understanding as to why we have chosen Wall Street as the place to begin this movement.
They know too that they are victims (I know you love that word) of an oppressive system that has been taken over by Big Money and taken away the voice of the people. These people fear for their families, their homes, and their jobs, as do the majority of Americans. To be a victim is to be adversely affected by or destroyed by an outside force. The 99% of the people who have had their voice in government taken away by the huge corporations who make hoards of money on Wall Street everyday have, in fact, been victimized by the greed of the 1%. No one is excluded. You too Kevin are part of the 99%. I compel you to take a look at and actually read Occupy Wall Street’s declaration to see the list of the grievances affecting the American people, as well as for the reason of an occupation in NYC which has been available to the public since September 29th. http://nycga.cc/2011/09/30/declaration-of-the-occupation-of-new-york-city/
We do not “expect a free market” to provide for us, but many of us do expect the oligopolies and those corporations who have bought their voice in government to pay their fair share. Wall Street transactions go untaxed besides a small fee of usually a few cents (http://www.sec.gov/answers/sec31.htm). Many economists agree that a tax (as little as 0.5%) on Wall Street transactions could raise as much as $175 billion each year (http://www.peri.umass.edu/fileadmin/pdf/working_papers/working_papers_201-250/WP212.pdf).
As for your acknowledgment that we should be occupying Washington D.C., I could not agree with you more. Wall Street was and is just the beginning. What you don’t understand is that we ARE in D.C. Many have been there since October 1st and a large rally was staged October 6th, the day you posted this. The reason the movement began on Wall Street is because that is where the debt crisis began, but this is a global movement.
This is why we Occupy Wall Street. Make no mistake though, we are in D.C. http://occupydc.org/
We are in many other financial centers & cities around the country and the world. http://www.occupytogether.org.
Thank you for your time,
Nicki Angelo
Nicki,
I don’t speak for anyone, but myself, and I appreciate your candor and intelligent thoughts.
While I don’t disagree with many of the things you say, the one big issue no one in the OWS movement addresses is the fact that the 99% (which includes me too) has command over the votes and over change. 1% may control the money, but we control the votes. If we think our reps and senators are taking corporate money and bending to their wishes, then we should stand up and vote them out of office. The OWS movement should be stationed in front of political offices in their hometowns demanding change or else you are out. We have control over these people in that we control their jobs, their livelihoods. The other issue with the 99% is that they are the ones holding back necessary reforms. The 99% refuses to accept reforms to Social Security and Medicare/aid. These two programs make up 70% of our spending. As a 28 year old, frankly, I never expect to see a dime of SS and expect fully to pay my own way for health care.
Some other issues I have with the movement are that the demands the movement posted are, frankly, absurd. While I agree with a few of them (equal rights, infrastructure, voting), the rest, you have to admit, are ridiculous. Free college, guaranteed living wage, complete debt forgiveness? The movement is basically saying they want everything handed to them, including answers to their debt mistakes.
And lastly, as with Kevin, you are camped out in the wrong place. You need to be in DC and in front of congressional offices at home. You state that the debt crisis started on Wall Street. I disagree, the debt crisis started in DC, when Clinton and the Republicans agreed on a massive financial deregulation package. It was perpetuated by the requirement that the government back 50%+ of mortgages. It started with the 99%. The 99% were greedy, and thought they had a right to own a home. They were too clouded by that “dream” that they failed to do any research, and were convinced by predatory lenders that signing that mortgage was in their best interest. Only after the 99% took out mortgages they couldn’t afford and started buying and selling and buying and selling and driving up real estate prices, did Wall Street start making derivatives out of the mortgages. And only after did the ratings agencies (who I think share more of the blame than banks and financial institutions) start rating these as AAA. As you can see, it started with Washington and the 99%, not Wall Street, they were last to jump on the bandwagon.
I hope you come back and can address some of my concerns, because I am very interested to hear your thoughts.
Thank you for the reply Nicki. I’m glad you found this post and had an opportunity to share your real story.
It looks like I was wrong to make assumptions about you and your work history. I also apparently made a poor assumption in thinking those pictures were taken in your place of residence. However, I am very curious where you have been living since mid 2009 and how you’ve been paying for it. You did clarify that you haven’t had steady work since that time, so either someone else has paid the bill for your living arrangements (family, friends, me (aka the government)), or you had money saved up that you used to pay rent. If you can tell me it is the latter, then I have once again made a poor assumption. However, if the former is true, and your living arrangements have been provided by someone other than yourself, then my assumption in the second bullet remains valid.
Furthermore, I hope you understand that the main point of the article was the fact that you and your friends are occupying the wrong place. I completely support anyone’s right to protest, but I would hope to see their protests directed at the appropriate audience.
I’m glad you posted that link to the occupy wall street demands. I had seen it before, but I had also seen many other lists of demands. Now that you’ve directed me to the “official” one I can address it, most likely in a post tomorrow. I definitely agree with some of those points, and I vehemently disagree with others.
As far as your $175 billion transaction tax, I really hope you don’t think that’s going to solve all your problems. Do you realize that in 2010, the federal government spent $821 billion on health care for citizens, as well as $140 billion on Education, $502 billion on welfare and $707 billion on social security? That’s a total of $2.17 trillion, or essentially equal to the amount of revenue the federal government takes in. The government then borrows or prints money to pay for everything else. This small amount of $175 billion wouldn’t even begin to pay for just one of the demands in your list (free education as a right), much less everything else you want to do.
Finally, it is true that I am technically in the 99%. However, I would prefer not to be associated with that group. I am part of the 53%. That is, the 53% of Americans that pay taxes for the programs that benefit the 100%. http://the53.tumblr.com/
Once again, I will take your list of demands and address each one in a post tonight. If you care to see my opinions as someone in the 53% on your demands, I encourage you to come back tomorrow, read my thoughts, and see where we agree and disagree.
Kevin,
Your blog is allegedly about money management and frugality – yet you kick off this heated discussion between OWS’s and the Neocons with an article basically insinuating that one of the protestors, Nicki, is a lazy good for nothing, and dumb too.
Now I think it is pretty clear that your intentions here are to get a tax write off for a non-profit blog. But in reality, you are doing a lot of political rebel rousing.
Thus, you do not qualify for any tax dduction for this site.
I am sorry, but tax deduction denied! You will have to pay your fair share….just like the OWS protestors are trying to get the big banks to do.
NO TAX DEDUCTION FOR THOUSANDAIRE. PER IRS.
Thanks for this post. It made me take a closer look at OWS and I have found myself referring to your post many times in conversation with people as we discuss what’s happening down the street (we’re in DC) and throughout the country. You also made your points so clearly that I was able to communicate it pretty well in conversation, even without a whole lot of background on what’s happening. Thanks.
I’m still not sure what the OWS people are protesting exactly, but, personally, I agree that there is a problem with corporate greed in America. Banks, like Bank of America, are largely responsible for the recession via the housing bubble burst, and there’s been very little accountability on their part for this.
It’s hard for me to find justification for paying CEO 8-figures in compensation each year when the bank is laying of tens of thousands of employees at the same time. People are acting like this is something that’s been going on forever – it hasn’t. CEO pay has skyrocketed over the last 30 years, and the income gap has increased, too. Unless there’s something I’m missing here, who’s happy about this and how’s this benefiting our country?
You clearly have no real understanding of how big banking works in this country. Although I agree with the specific example you gave with “Angelo” the reality is that the American people should be pissed at Wall St. They just don’t realize why they should. You love to champion “the free markets” but I’d like you to tell me how Quantitative easing works. Here is a program, where banks take place in the OMO then flip those securities back to the fed (in as little time as a week in some instances) and collect the proceeds and use them to fund their prop trading groups. So in essence they are taking your money to speculate. And what are they speculating on? Commodities. Essentially jacking up the price of basic necessities on average middle class Americans. They are using YOUR tax dollars to make it more expensive for you to live. Isn’t that a neat trick. I worked in finance a long time, and it always aggrevates me when limp dick morons like you throw your bullshit out there with no real comprehension of what the fuck you’re talking about.
You used expletives, therefore you must know what you’re talking about.
Ah yes, I cursed. I must be way off base then. Why not listen to the guy to refers to himself as “awesome” in his blog. I am sure he’s a much more credible source of relaying the nuances of banking and finance.
I have done research and the real fault for these problems in America is that the federal reserve was created to make our money in 1912 and they are just a group of private bankers that loan us whatever money our government wants, and they charge us interest on all that money which means as long as we have this system. They will control our country, and our country will grow deeper and deeper into debt, which means one day whether it be in my lifetime or my kids lifetime Thomas Jefferson’s warning might come to pass that Thomas Jefferson was concise in his early warning to the American nation, “If the American people ever allow private banks to control the issuance of their currency, first by inflation and then by deflation, the banks and corporations that will grow up around them will deprive the people of all their property until their children will wake up homeless on the continent their fathers conquered.” Therefore we need elect people who will rid us of the federal reserve so we don’t have to keep lining the private bankers all our country’s money.